Pee Wee

Posts: 18
Joined: August 28th, 2017, 8:47 am

Re: Pee Wee

Post by gameofinchesinyards » August 28th, 2017, 9:28 am

Ok-- so this is my first ever post,,,and frankly I am somewhat embarrassed to even be here,,,I found out about this forum after a mother told me bout a disagreement she had with what someone said when they read something here- so, I went on the site and read your is interesting how many of you have lost sight of the bigger picture with these young men and that you seem to be living your football days vicariously through these kids- so in a somewhat hypocritical sense I am going to respond a post reason to this forum -- read it or not I speak truth.

-as validation for this and any future posts I was an all-state high school player, highly recruited and played Div one football where I started for all four years, I played one game Pro and got very hurt... I thought I would coach so i GA'd in College and did coach a high school 5A squad back east Coast... I only say this to have some validity.

That all said- Who the to teams are is irrelevant because frankly some cities allow coaches to stack teams and some cities more readily allow coaches to keep a core group of kids year after year i.e. Kaysville, Syracuse, Roy and Plain city....I am not specifically associated with any city presently, but have two nephews playing for two different cities, I am associated with some of your WFFL folks and I know many of your coaches. The top teams are always going to be those teams that have consistency over years with somewhat qualified coaching staffs and are allowed a core group of good players to stay together... i.e. Kaysville etc... Also there4 is a great disparity in Coaching where some dads coaching think they know the basics but really dont, while other kids are provided amazing coaches and nor schemes ...

--as far as the Ogden Valley team/situation is concerned, I am not sure what you expect the opposing coaches to do- They play their kids and where you have a struggling team like that teams are going to score-- I know the Layton Blue team the first week only played their offensive starters ten plays the entire game - i know this because I have a friend who has a kid on the team -I believe Layton Blue scored on 7 of 10 offensive plays... Syracuse White was very similar and btw what do you expect these coaches to do because they are trying to get their teams ready to play tougher teams down the road. I know both coaches of both teams (8Layton Blue and Syracuse White) and both are very good guys,,, the Layton Blue coach is a VERY good coach that coached my boys in another age group years ago before we moved from Layton and he is the real deal -so any coaches going up against his team better strap its on because he is fundamentally the most sound coach I have seen...I also know that Layton Blu and Layton Silver are dealing with 30+ kids on each team because they couldn't find a third coach so these Layton coaches have the unenviable task of getting 5+ plays per half for each of the 30+ kids and in Layton Blue's situation they are dealing with running clocks so that makes it even more problematic... The Syracuse white coach is also a good guy and has a decent group of kids...

Doing a top ten list is so immaterial really because I believe the top teams are really those teams who can take the kids they have,develop them and get them ready to play down the road- teaching kids to win and be competitive are important parts of it all but thinking Kaysville is a number one top team is silly since they keep their core team, concepts and coaching staffs together and do gentlemen's agreements between themselves prior to the season to insure success. Don't get me wrong I am not criticizing them for this as they are competitive men but it isn't a fair playing field for the rest of the teams. AND don't tell me it isn't the case because I have intimate personal experience with both Kaysville teams and coaches and am personally aware that such is the case- Again, I am not being critical in any way but I am trying to point out that the kids read your posts ands so do other parents and I think there needs to perspective

I am interested in these kids getting a great opportunity too play the greatest sport even conceived and having fun doing it...Many kids at this PEE WEE age haven't developed yet and will be the kids in High School with the most opportunity, Many kids this age who are super stars now or older but lighter greats will be too small by High School or everyone else will catch with them...the trick is to not get the kids just starting out now or still awkward discouraged because we are posting stupid top ten lists and is truly silly!!!- maybe it would be more notable to point to top ten performances of the week by kids and or coached or give constructive shout outs to teams and coaches ,,, or remark about teams making progress. Im just saying lets get rid of the TOP TEN teams Posts, they are truly irrelevant, are not constructive and do not bely the purpose of the league. ... its just bulloney and is ego stroking by parents and kids on privileged stacked teams .... lets talk about great kids coaches and ways to get these kids a positive experience... How about it>???

If not here are my top Ten Teams

1- Ogden Valley- Wow it must be a monumental task to work toward a positive experience
2- Layton Blue- amazing coach, 30+ kids- all of which got their plays,, and a remarkable improvement since last year
3- Layton Silver- 30 + kids, they had a better record last year but are trying to make this year a great experience for all
4. Bear River- Less kids to work with as a while and are paying their hearts out
5. Farmington teams - More results with less
6. Ogden Purple- took on a very stacked Kaysville team and proved competitive
7. see my point----

My point

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Joined: September 30th, 2012, 2:57 am

Re: Pee Wee

Post by Gridiron » August 28th, 2017, 10:44 am

I guess I better give my take on what I observed from the Syracuse White sideline and unlike MF49 this will be for the entire game. I also wanted to point out that everything was going really good with this forum until kayskross started up his old ways again. I typically stop participating with this forum when this type of stuff starts up and usually it is kayskross that gets all the bad with this forum started. Thank you everyone for at least giving it a really good shot at keeping the forum positive and respectful. I do remember last year a bunch of Kaysville forum members basically kicked kayskross off the island stating that he is a disgrace to the city and their football teams, he and his comments don't represent any of the teams. It truly is sad because all he is doing is taking away from all the great things these Kaysville teams are doing in the league.

Back to Syracuse White I think many of the comments were aligned because here are some things that I did observe from watching the game and the coaching staff which showed me they were trying: They never played their dominate defensive line - not once. The two smallest kids on the team played defensive tackles the entire game. I seen kids play defense that have never played before at positions like corner and linebacker. Ogden Valley was trying to run everything to the outside so I was not surprised to see the coaches pull their starting corners and put two kids that don't play corner there. He also had kids at OLB that had never played there before (one played DT last week and the other was a center) and I seen his other starting OLB moved to free safety and was rotating every other play with his normal starting FS. On offense he pulled is starting skill players and was running plays that I hadn't even seen before. Even his starting players still need to get 10 plays a game and its tough when they are scoring on the first possession on an inside the tackles run play. I was about to type the only thing I would have disagreed with was his kickoff team was kicking deep every time which gave Ogden Valley a long field. But then I started to think about it and typically the fastest kids are back to receive and I think like everyone already knows they probably could have on-sided every time and got the ball back like everyone else does in the league so I will even give the coaches the benefit of doubt on this because they were probably trying to help Ogden Valley with the deeper kicks.

Again I know the coach I know his character I know he does all of his coaching, scouting, church activities and everything else for the kids and to make sure they have a good experience. This had to be a tough situation for him and based on what he posted on our team website message board late last night he feels really bad about it. He apologized and he communicated that he was put in a tough position and was trying to balance everything out and would never want to win any game so lopsided. He talked about how Ogden Valley has a lot to work on and would not be in any conversations about top teams but he mentioned how impressed he was with their players. They all had great sportsmanship, never quit playing and at the end they all had their heads up and smiles across their faces. He mentioned they are a top team in his book. Not sure if he even looks at this forum or cares but I have found myself on several occasions doing damage control and setting the record straight for our team and coach. Maybe there is a reason he doesn't and I just need to get the picture and stop even looking at this.

@gameofinchesinyards - thank you for your comments and just like Coach C from Ogden your heart is in the right place and you understand what all of this is all about.

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Joined: August 16th, 2016, 10:53 am

Re: Pee Wee

Post by FootballFTW » August 28th, 2017, 11:22 am

@gameofinchesinyards & all of us,

Lighten up a bit! Most of those that post are just trying to have a little fun and make the season a bit more interesting. We all know that this sport is about far more then wins / losses. The teams that come out and lose every game and keep on fighting are all awesome. We all respect that. Many of the top teams have 2 and 3 teams and have 60+ kids to pick from. This gives some of those teams an advantage. It's for this reason high school has 3A, 4A, 5A etc.

@gameofinchesinyards: I will call you out on your comments about Kaysville at least. I am very familiar with those teams and have friends that coach on 2 of the 3 teams. Your comments about the gentlemen's agreements and stacking teams is pure nonsense. All 3 teams have their 6 locks and they do a completely fair draft. Do the teams become somewhat lopsided? Of course, as you said many of the kids have played together, often times the better kids move from one team to another (as locked / frozen kids) to get a different experience or be on a team that will more likely make it into the playoffs, etc. As you mentioned, when you have good coaches, a core group of kids that play together for a number of years, and simply a lot of talented kids from a large pool of kids to pick from, you end up with a couple of good teams. If you have such intimate details of the backroom deals I'd love to see you elaborate on them. All allegations like this do is create animosity and encourage other teams to do the exact things you are accusing (falsely IMO) Kaysville of doing. This kind of animosity can get kids injured.

I can't speak to what happens in some other cities but I would hope those teams would run things similarly.

As for Kayscross, I just take him with a grain of salt. Everyone needs to recognize a troll when they see one and have a little fun with it. Don't take it so serious!

Let's just all have fun on this forum and fun cheering for the kids on the field!
Last edited by FootballFTW on August 28th, 2017, 12:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Posts: 36
Joined: September 3rd, 2013, 4:46 pm

Re: Pee Wee

Post by plaincity05 » August 28th, 2017, 12:19 pm

I agree with footballftw, this is all in fun. I for one like seeing who has what team ranked where, does it make me wanna try running up the score in my game to move up a spot on someone's rankings absolutely NOT !! So if your embarrassed to be on here while some coaches and parents talk about teams in our league, don't be here..

On the stacking of teams I know nothing about Kaysville but it seems like you guys got that city covered already. I can speak on behalf of Plain City and Roy. Being the coach of P.C. Silver I know that Blue had his 6 protects and we had our 6 protects. Would I have liked to have 1 or 2 of his skill players sure but they were protected and we drafted straight up from there(no gentleman's agreements down here). Knowing all 3 of the Roy head coaches at our age it is the same over there, has Black been the better team the last couple of years yeah (have you seen their protects...studs). They alson lose key role players to the other teams year in and year out.

Here is something for your non top 10....

I think we all know that there is so much more to this game than the wins and losses, yeah we won 32-0 this week but you know what all of our kids will remember most about this past Saturday, it's our team mate with autism getting his 1st tackle ever and even though he ended up on his back the majority of plays he was in he kept getting up smiling every time. Its our back up line being in there driving down the field making blocks for our back up running back who are scoring their 1st touchdowns of the year.

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Joined: August 28th, 2017, 8:47 am

Re: Pee Wee

Post by gameofinchesinyards » August 28th, 2017, 3:37 pm

Thats the problem... when you say lighten up its just a little bit of side fun,... the little bit of side fun is for you guys only and the stacked teams not the rest of the league and for you - you live vicariously thru these silly top ten posts and predictions....Your assertion that it is like a 3A 4A 5A etc analogous which is further the point as to why the top ten lists are beyond silly and only fun for dads and their stacked teams egos ....

Say whatever you want about gentlemen agreements,.,, I have personal experience with these coaches, specifically Kaysville- and their teams- it is not a criticism btw it is simply a statement of fact and circumstance-

Posts: 43
Joined: August 16th, 2016, 10:53 am

Re: Pee Wee

Post by FootballFTW » August 28th, 2017, 4:17 pm


Whatever you say man! Since you know all of us so well. Any coach / parent / fan of any team can come on here and make their top 10s or make their picks for who will win each week. It isn't just for the teams that are in the top 10. Many people do come on to check things out and never post. Some of us post to make things more interesting. In the end, the top 10s and picks for the week don't matter, that's why its just for fun! Just like picking who will win between the Broncos and Seahawks or trying to fill out an NCAA tournament bracket.

I also love when people come on and share experiences of good sportsmanship or other reasons that they felt a game was special to them. I'm sure we would all love to see more of that.

If it isn't fun for you and in some way is taking away from your experience with the WFFL, I would suggest you simply stop coming here to read / post.

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Joined: September 22nd, 2015, 8:36 pm

Re: Pee Wee

Post by Grizz18 » August 28th, 2017, 5:16 pm

Holy Crap!! Kayscross look what you have done to the forum :)

gameofinchesinyards--- it seems like you read this guys post and just lost it. If you havent been on here before or havent read much, i could see how you would lose it by reading that post from him. Last year he basically called everyone a joke besides 3 or 4 teams which he called out by name. (I believe he backs up Kays Brown (this year)). Only to get beat by a team he talked trash on the same week. He then disappeared the rest of the season. Everyone jumped down his throat and im sure he knew it was coming and just left the forum for the year. Im sure we would have seen him back on here if they would have made it to the bowl.
I think everyone knows he talks before he thinks and his comments dont bother the "regular" guys on here too much. We will call him out on his dumb comments like "OG Purple cant compete with the upper class teams" -- then he ranks PC Blue above his own "elite" team, not remembering that OGP beat PCB last year, or took Roy Black to the wire going for 2 to win the game only to miss by inches. Is that not competing with "upper class" teams?? When you beat one of them?? Also-- did he just look at the Kays White/ OGP score this week and just assume that the game went on as normal? Did he watch OGP march down first possession and score? Did he see that they lost 2 studs in the 2nd qrtr when the score was 7-6?? We all know that these "upper" teams have 3,4 or 5 really good athletes and when you lose 1 or 2, the show can be over for some teams. He clearly has issues with these teams or clearly doesnt have a clue of what he is talking about. I mean come on-- he calls out the whole city of Syracuse?? Who does that? And he obviously had no idea of what really happened in the SW game-- just saw the score and let his mouth run with it. There have been people on here from Kaysville that try to curb their "diamond in the rough" but he just keeps going. It is kind of entertaining in a sick way-- everyone on here seems to agree and there has been nothing but positive comments until that one came out.
As far as the top tens go--- It's all in fun. Only a few guys get on here and put out what they think and in no way whatsoever do i think that it hurts the kids. (if they read this forum) Maybe if someone ranked everyone and they saw that they were #37, but as far as they know they could be right there close with the top ten teams. Right? Im not even sure there are too many coaches on here who are ranking there own teams-- i feel comfortable ranking and we arent near the ten. So im not stroking my ego-- and its pretty clear who they are, its not some big secret. I think it is good motivation for some of these teams to want to beat someone who is "ranked", or some of the teams up north probably dont have a clue who they are playing every week, so this forum might give them some insight on some teams that some people think highly of. Everyone also discusses things that you mentioned-- they point out good things that they saw for the week and good plays and so on. I mean its a FORUM-- people actually get on here and ask to see top tens. As long as people want to see them or think its in good fun, there isnt any harm being done. Is it useless? Probably-- but so is everything posted on here-- right?? Do you think Kayscross will quit talking trash on everyone else, just because we asked him? Nope. For the most part-- the forum is nothing but good and compliments. And we all know the teams that sneak around and stack as you say. But really, what are you supposed to do? If you played for the same team for 4 years and another team tried to take you, would you be upset? The topic can be debated all day long. Kids dont want to leave there team or the coaches who have mentored them for so many years, but then again, wouldnt it be nice to spread the talent around the city who have 3 teams? Maybe it is just great coaching and 6 great saves that they have every year. All im saying is that every topic can be debated.
Anyways-- i hate long posts and i just posted one. But for my final piece of advice-- if you want to jump on here and have any credibility whatsoever-- you shouldnt start your "first post" by belittling everyone else who is on here. No matter your validity.
E.g. Embarrassed to be here --- living vicariously --- you have lost site --- some dads think they know. Seems a little judgy when you admit to just getting on here right? People have been posting top tens for a long time, so it seems odd that you jump on here (even though you are embarrassed to be here) and ask everyone "lets get rid of the TOP TEN"??
Maybe you dont belong here, especially when you make comments like "do not bely the purpose of the league" ? Seriously? Everyone on here had to look that one up! (where is the laughing emoji when you need it!!)
That was a compliment by the way-- wasnt being rude, just sounded funnier phrased that way.
Anyways-- welcome to the forum!

My top ten coming soon ;)

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Joined: September 22nd, 2015, 8:36 pm

Re: Pee Wee

Post by Grizz18 » August 28th, 2017, 5:37 pm

Almost forgot-- my validation. I played 1 year little league, 9th grade year and all three years HS. I didnt even get Honorable mention and i didnt play college ball. I did however score 4 TDs in a Sophomore game!
And i took Second place in my pinewood derby once!

Posts: 34
Joined: September 22nd, 2015, 8:36 pm

Re: Pee Wee

Post by Grizz18 » August 28th, 2017, 6:08 pm


1: Justin Bieber
2: AC/DC
3: Air Supply
4: Beyoncé
5: Depeche Mode
6: NWA
7: Metallica
8: Eazy E
9/10: Marilyn Manson/ Mormon Tabernacle Choir
This was a tough one- I've seen them both and they are
Both so good- couldn't decide. But definitely top Ten!

Posts: 27
Joined: October 4th, 2014, 4:43 pm

Re: Pee Wee

Post by ItsAllOnTheLine » August 28th, 2017, 6:21 pm

Grizz18 wrote:
> 1: Justin Bieber
> 2: AC/DC
> 3: Air Supply
> 4: Beyoncé
> 5: Depeche Mode
> 6: NWA
> 7: Metallica
> 8: Eazy E
> 9/10: Marilyn Manson/ Mormon Tabernacle Choir
> This was a tough one- I've seen them both and they are
> Both so good- couldn't decide. But definitely top Ten!

Ha... :) Well played, Grizz. But I disagree with rankings 1, 4 and 7... how you can have Beyoncé ranked above Metallica is beyond me. Have you seen them both in action? :-D I guess the only way to decide this is head-to-head concerts... or, at least, same-opponent comparisons. :)

I will also back up PlainCity05 on his take with Plain City's PeeWee teams: Blue and Silver each have their protects - just as the WFFL allows - and they drafted from there. Believe me - each of those coaching staffs work hard to make their teams as good as they can possibly be and neither lays down for the other in terms of talent acquisition. The fact that most WFFL Pee Wee prognosticators have both PC teams ranked (Sorry, gameofinches) in the top 10 out of a 37 team league shows they must be doing something right in the coaching department as well as having some tremendous athletes and coaches to direct those kids.

Truly, I think the vast majority of posters to this forum (other than those who's names start with "K...aysKross"), :) do so in fun; to share insight and banter and just discuss a game we all love being played by kids we have some sort of connection to.

I think Gameofinches' has his heart in a great place - looking out for the kids. But to paint such a wide swath of people - many whom you have probably never met - with the same overtly negative brush seems a bit presumptuous. I have met several of these guys in person and, to a man, they love this sport and are ALL ABOUT the kids. This is why they donate their time and sacrifice a part of their lives to pass on their love of this the grandest of games to a new generation of athletes.

Truth be told, Gameofinches, I would welcome your football thoughts and opinion given the background you have; just as I value that of those who have taken the time and put in the effort to keep up with all that goes on in this very active division.

And if I may be so bold, I think most of us here are living a bit through our kids - not vicariously but with hope. I am watching my boys play football and hoping with all I have for them to be successful not because "I" need to be successful or because it makes "me" look good but because I want my boys to learn the hard-fought and not easily learned lessons of 100% effort, sportsmanship, teamwork, overcoming hardship, disappointment and adversity and more via the same sport that introduced me to these principles.

Yes, as outdated as some may think it is, as a parent, I believe sports - and ESPECIALLY football - are one of the most powerful crucibles of discipline and character-building a young person can participate in. Some may think this is "looking too deep" but I believe it is through the effort and dedication each player gives to their teams, the games and the multitude of practices that many come to realize - for the first time, even - that they can, indeed, accomplish hard things; but only if they are willing to sacrifice, put in an honest effort and work together with others - something that is seriously lacking in today's world.

Ok, so we are probably a bit guilty from time to time of gauging the success of those efforts by wins and losses but, overall, deep down, we know it is more about the lessons learned, the team and personal successes achieved (As that Ogden Valley squad has experienced by simply taking the field against such tremendous odds) and the inner strength built than about games won or lost. And the time and attention I give my boys and their investment into this sport is an effort in which I most DEFINITELY take a deep and abiding interest. An interest which will most likely overflow into arenas such as this forum.

Winning and losing? These are mere byproducts of a greater cause and focus but rarely (although, sadly, from time to time it does happen) do they truly overshadow the real reason we are all here: the kids.

Alright, my apologies to everyone (especially Grizz who hates long posts) :) for the soapbox moment... I just love this game and all it offers and love the fact that my boys love it and want to play it, too. And not for the wins and losses or the trophies or the rankings. Those will either be forgotten or in a box collecting dust in just a few years. But the experience and the friendships and the lessons learned? Those will literally last a lifetime. And I, for one, am glad to be a part of it.
Last edited by ItsAllOnTheLine on August 29th, 2017, 1:46 am, edited 6 times in total.

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